A Conversation on Career, Health, and the Meaning of Life | Original
This article is compiled from the audio transcript of an online meeting. The two participants were AI engineer Zhiwei Li and iOS Engineer Niyao. Because the original transcript lost speaker labels, the content below is reorganized from a third-person perspective (“they”), preserving the colloquial style and core ideas of the original conversation, while removing repetition, small talk, and unrelated fragments, and grouping things by topic.
Note: this article was produced via Whisper transcription followed by Deepseek-v4-flash reorganization. Some details may contain minor or trivial factual inaccuracies — please verify any important information independently before relying on it.
AI Translation tips: Niyao (倪瑶), Zhiwei Li (李智维), Xiaohe Meditation (小荷冥想), Zhuoyebang (作业帮), Tang Qiao (唐巧), Wang Wei (王巍)
| Niyao’s blog: niyaoyao.github.io | GitHub: github.com/niyaoyao |
This conversation revolves around personal career experiences, life pressures, physical health, and the development of AI technology. The two participants engaged in an in-depth discussion about the mindset shift after being laid off, the financial pressure brought by mortgage debt, the shift in priorities from pursuing career achievements to prioritizing a healthy life, and the impact of AI on the future of programmers. They also exchanged their respective iOS development experiences, what it’s like working as a dispatched worker at a Japanese company, and their views on the value of tech blogs.
Personal Experience and Career Reflection
Going Public After Being Laid Off and Asking for Help
One participant mentioned that after being laid off, they chose to face it openly. Although unemployment is widely understood in China’s current environment, losing a job in 2015–2016 when everyone had work would make people question their own abilities. They shared their experience of becoming unemployed in 2023 — at the time their annual salary was 380,000 RMB. Later, although they received an offer from a foreign bank as a dispatched worker, the compensation was far less than before. The other person responded that even during the peak of mobile internet in 2015–2016, her job search was not smooth. Her starting monthly salary was only 1,760 RMB doing PHP development. At the end of 2014, she taught herself iOS and spent five months going from self-study to landing her first iOS job, with a monthly salary of just over 5,000 RMB — and that was in Shanghai.
The Dilemma of Female Programmers and a Shift in Mindset
The participants discussed the dual pressure women face in both career and marriage. One participant mentioned that it wasn’t until she returned to Wuhan and gave birth to a child that she truly shed her career anxiety — because after experiencing life and death (childbirth), unemployment no longer felt frightening. She said that in the past, when interacting with someone named “Wang wei” and “Tang Qiao” she was very self-effacing — “whatever others said, I felt like I was just being noticed.” But after having her child, she was “reborn.” Now when she posts on social media, she no longer cares whether former colleagues block her or like her posts. She expresses herself to vent, not to please others.
Career Planning and Pessimism About the Tech Industry
Her long-term goal for the future is to “maintain the mindset and physique of a 20- or 30-year-old at age 40,” and secondly, to find opportunities to transition outside the software industry. She is generally pessimistic about the software industry, believing that “programmers are essentially on a path to being eliminated in the future.” She thinks only those who can control agents and master resources will survive, while most people will lose their jobs. She mentioned that she is currently trying to use AI for self-media and independent products, but this is mainly to “escape the workplace atmosphere,” not to escape development itself. She now understands that simply selling her work experience and time cannot guarantee physical health and quality of life.
Disenchantment with Authority and Personal Growth
The participants discussed the “disenchantment with authority” that comes with growing up. One mentioned that Qiao Ge once got angry and left the group chat over a debate about the “moon landing,” but they later reconciled after he explained himself. He realized that everyone simply acquires knowledge within specific environments and life experiences — in the AI era, even a middle school student can proficiently use AI. No one can definitively claim superiority over others; at most, someone can be more skilled in a particular area. The other added that her current worldview is “not deliberately trying to please anyone” — do what benefits you, and when you receive a salary, just do your job well.
Real Estate and Financial Pressure
The Heavy Burden of Property Investment
One participant described in detail her experience selling her apartment: bought for 2.16 million RMB, listed at 2 million RMB, seemingly only losing 160,000 RMB. But factoring in over 200,000 RMB in interest, 150,000 RMB in renovation, 35,000 RMB in deed tax, 50,000 RMB in agency fees, and other miscellaneous costs, the total actual loss was about 600,000 RMB. This apartment was her pre-marital property — although the deed was solely in her name, both spouses had to be present for notarization during the transaction. Another participant shared his experience buying a home in Zengcheng, Guangzhou — the property’s value was cut in half, dropping from about 2 million to around 1 million RMB, a loss of roughly 1 million. He still owes 900,000 RMB on the mortgage and has additionally taken on 200,000–300,000 RMB in consumer loans. He said he wants to sell the apartment, but his wife and family disagree, arguing “why sell when you have a job?” He believes selling would give him cash on hand to buy GPUs and invest in learning.
Core Location vs. Suburban Real Estate Differences
The participant in Jinan pointed out that her apartment in a prime Jinan location — 700 meters from a subway station, surrounded by three top-tier hospitals — held its value relatively well. The buyer was a doctor from the provincial hospital. By contrast, housing prices in Zengcheng, Guangzhou’s suburbs, fell much more sharply. She noted that apartments in prime locations don’t drop as much, since new developments in the area are still around 3 million RMB, and her apartment’s actual transaction price of 1.95 million was already quite a bargain.
Deleveraging and Reducing Debt
The two reached a consensus: in the current economic environment, “reducing debt, preserving cash, and staying alive” is the most important task. One participant summarized that the pressure of monthly payments of seven to eight thousand RMB, coupled with ever-increasing interest costs, made him want to sell his apartment. Moreover, he lives alone — his wife and child only come on weekends — so the apartment isn’t truly essential. But he faces family resistance: his wife doesn’t understand why he would sell when he still has a job.
Health and Life Goals
Physical Changes and Family History of Cardiovascular Disease
One participant mentioned that since starting overtime work at “Zhuoyebang” in 2021, she gained 20 jin (about 10 kg), which significantly affected her health. Her father passed away from a heart attack at age 48, and her mother also has cardiovascular disease, so she is particularly sensitive about health issues. Having “been through major storms,” she now forces herself to take regular breaks, but still habitually stays up late — the most recent time was because she was posting videos and didn’t go to bed until midnight.
The other participant admitted his weight increased from over 70 kg to 95 kg, and his goal is to reduce body fat back to 130 jin (65 kg). Both agreed that “physical health is the greatest wealth,” especially in middle age, when healthspan deserves more attention.
From Achievement-Driven to Curiosity-Driven
The participants discussed differences in motivational drivers. One referenced Zhang Yiming’s view on “curiosity-driven vs. achievement-driven” — curiosity-driven motivation brings happiness, but achievement-driven motivation can easily become “vanity-driven” or lead to “exhaustion of a climber.” He admitted that over the past decade or more, he had hardly ever truly rested — even on vacation, he functioned like an “information-gathering machine,” frantically taking photos and promoting himself. This sustained high-load state for a year and a half was partly to pay off debt and partly due to an achievement-driven psychology.
Technical Discussion and AI’s Impact and Insights
Career Marginalization in the Code and AI Era
The two participants explored in depth the impact of AI on the programming profession. One stated that AI has reached “a stage where it can replace human intelligence,” and all work based on experience and time could potentially be replaced. She noted that older programmers easily fall into “mental cages and fixed patterns,” while younger people are more mentally agile (she gave the example of a woman in their group chat who can do both ESP32 embedded development and write VS Code plugins). The other participant had previously claimed to be able to read “over 20,000 Chinese and English articles,” but few people read them. Writing tech blogs now feels “devalued” because AI can easily generate similar content.
The Evolution and Current State of iOS Development
The participant working at the Japanese company shared her iOS development experience: her company currently uses SwiftUI and Swift as its primary frameworks. Most domestic products still rely mainly on UIKit, but SwiftUI offers declarative UI that is better suited for modern development. She mentioned that SwiftUI’s view hierarchy is “flattened onto a single layer,” unlike UIKit where each component can exist independently. For debugging, she first exports SVG and has AI reverse-engineer the code, but the fidelity is still limited and requires manual adjustment.
She mentioned she is building a ChatGPT-like chat applicationtargeting Japanese users and listed only on the Japan App Store. The project started in March 2024 and launched in February 2025, with a team of just three people.
About Xiaohe Meditation and Paid Testing
One participant mentioned wanting to pay for the “Xiaohe Meditation” app and being willing to become its first paying user. But the developer hadn’t set up a payment gateway yet and had no paying users. There was also a bug mixing Simplified Chinese and English text. The developer said: “I don’t want to touch this project for the next two or three months.”
Foreign Company vs. Domestic Internet Work Culture
The participants compared working at a Japanese company versus a domestic internet company (such as Zuoyebang): foreign companies are more regulated, respect privacy, and don’t require checking work chat after hours. Overtime can be compensated with time off. Domestic internet companies feature “unpaid voluntary overtime,” where weekend work might offer double pay. At the Japanese company, people leave on time; even when there is overtime, it’s only when absolutely necessary. However, the management level remains intensely competitive — working 9 to 12 hours a day, and the American CTO is “online almost 24/7.”
English Proficiency and Japanese-Language Environment
Working at a Japanese Company and Communicating in English
The participants discussed using English at the Japanese company. One mentioned communicating with the Japanese boss and business CTO in English — since the other party is Japanese and she doesn’t speak Japanese, she typically uses AI translation to explain project structures. The other participant said that when speaking English with Indian colleagues, he sometimes gets “cut off” by more fluent engineers for being too verbose. This kind of “being asked to let someone else speak” happens once every two or three months.
Mutual Assessment of Spoken English and Self-Awareness
The developer of “Xiaohe Meditation” was asked: “How do you think you compare to iOS veterans like Tang Qiao and Wang Wei?” She said she “doesn’t like comparing people,” but objectively, the other person’s intelligence, coding ability, and product thinking are “on the same level” as those veterans. However, there are two areas where she falls short: first, not enough luck; second, a mindset more inclined toward being “achievement-driven,” which tends to create psychological pressure.
Product and Technical Layering
Changing How We Acquire Information in the AI Era
The participants noted that learning technology now mostly means “throwing it to AI and letting it parse the problem” rather than diving into details. They discussed the significance of mathematical formulas in convolutional neural networks (such as convolution formulas), pointing out that “if you’re not deliberately researching the fundamentals, in the AI era you don’t need to memorize the details.” Regarding tech blogs, one person argued that AI can effectively read and summarize blog content and provide interactive Q&A, shifting people from physical reading to “AI-agent learning.”
Practical Experience with Large Model Applications
The participant who had worked on open-source projects introduced her explorations in large model training, including Quick Draw’s open-source model and Core ML on-device models. She said that even an older model with “low recognition accuracy” can provide value through learning and reproduction. The other participant said he mainly designed interfaces for AI Rating, doing extensive UI and interaction work involving image upload and chat interface components.
Scenario Testing: Multilingual Bug in Xiaohe Meditation
One participant mentioned discovering a multilingual inconsistency while testing the “Xiaohe Meditation” app in the US App Store: with the system language set to English, text like “Light Rain” and “River” still displayed in Chinese. The developer acknowledged it was “probably a bug,” likely caused by state not being updated after a UI revision.
Final Consensus and Future Plans
The two ultimately agreed: the most important tasks right now are maintaining physical health, sustaining basic income, and not being swayed by others’ judgments. Regarding the future and a kind of “deep-sea anxiety,” they decided to remain observant and face uncertainty with a more open mindset. Finally, one participant said they would organize this conversation into an article for their blog (with about 70,000 monthly visits) and promote it in their community, hoping to bring some traffic to “Xiaohe Meditation.” The other responded: “Thanks for helping me promote it.”
Photos from the Conversation
Xiaohe Meditation (LotusMind): Download on the App Store